This episode of Outfoxed is a play-by-play of what it really takes to validate an idea, pivot with purpose, and land early customers—without all the startup chest-puffing.
Mattias Liivak spent 10+ years in PR, marketing, and growth enablement before founding ProcessPlot, a Slack and Microsoft Teams chatbot for change communication.
Their tool helps organizations communicate change better—running campaigns, collecting feedback, and checking understanding as teams adapt.
But it wasn’t always that neat.
Before finding their product-market fit, Mattias and his team built the wrong thing (twice). They chased the wrong ICP. And like many of us, they learned that “we’ll circle back next quarter” is code for never.
Here’s what we learned and how to outfox your competitors with it.
Please note: These thoughts are a reflection of the author and do not represent those of Mattias Liivak, ProcessPlot, Hunter.io, Matt Tharp, or any employees or partners of the aforementioned.
TL;DR summary of Outfoxed, episode 4
In Episode 4 of Outfoxed, Mattias shares lessons that are going to land with anyone who has ever built or sold anything remotely new:
- Find PMF faster. Use cold outreach as a validation engine, not just a megaphone.
- De-risk your pivots. Earn commitment before you write a single line of code.
- Stop pipeline daydreaming. Learn to separate timing objections from value objections.
- Communicate until it lands. Change fails when you assume everyone “just gets it.”
- Protect your energy. Sustainable systems—and time for life outside work—beat hustle theater every time.
It's a reminder that being a founder is a story with many detours, and above all else, you need to create sustainable habits that keep your clear from burnout.
Here are my biggest takeaways from the episode.
1. Validate With Cold, Not Comfort
The Challenge:
It’s easy to rely on warm intros and friendly feedback — but they create a false sense of traction. You don’t know if your message really resonates until you test it with strangers.
“As fast as possible, go from intros and referrals to doing cold, cold outreach.”
What That Means:
Warm contacts tell you what you want to hear. Cold ones tell you what you need to hear. Real validation comes from audiences with no prior bias or emotional investment.
How to Outfox Your Competitors:
Build a 100-account cold list. Run a 3-email + LinkedIn touch pattern that talks only about their problem, not your product. Track reply reasons (pain, timing, fit) — not just reply rates.
2. Pivot Earlier Than You Think You Need To
The Challenge:
Many teams spend months (or years) building products no one’s actually asked for. They validate with code instead of commitment.
“We don’t have anything built yet — we’re going to build it together with you.”
What That Means:
You don’t need a finished product to sell an idea. You need proof that someone will show up to co-create it. Feedback from multiple sources beats one enthusiastic “yes.”
And if you're not convinced, read The Mom Test.
How to Outfox Your Competitors:
Rewrite your pitch to include a “build-with-you” offer.
Ask prospects to commit time — not money — to early design sessions.
You’ll de-risk your roadmap and get advocates before you launch.
3. Your ICP Isn't "People Like Us"
The Challenge:
We all assume our buyers are just like us. But they’re often not the end users or even the people who sign the checks.
“We started selling to customer success and implementation leaders — our world — but learned that HR owned the real problem.”
What That Means:
Familiarity clouds judgment. True ICP discovery happens when you zoom out from who uses your product to who owns the pain and controls the budget.
How to Outfox Your Competitors:
Map your User → Enabler → Economic Buyer chain.
For tools that support change, the buyer may live in HR or Ops, not the front-line team.
Sell to the function that can fund the solution.
4. Treat "Not Now" As "Not Ever" (For Now)
The Challenge:
A bloated pipeline full of “maybe later” deals looks great on a dashboard — until you realize it’s fiction.
“I move timing deferrals out of the active pipeline and re-engage later — instead of counting them as near-term opportunities.”
What That Means:
Deferred interest isn’t progress. “Not now” means they’re not ready, not that they’re secretly warming up. Keeping them in your pipeline clouds your focus and forecasts.
How to Outfox Your Competitors:
Create a Re-qualify Later stage in your CRM and review it monthly.
Better yet, look at responses in your Hunter email campaign and prioritize follow ups a month after being told "now isn't the right time".
Keep your active pipeline limited to prospects with a current problem and clear path to budget.
5. Even Introverts Sell
The Challenge
Many founders and marketers avoid selling because they think it requires charisma. But sustainable growth comes from process, not personality.
“You need to love your product, but then you need to put your product away.”
What That Means:
Sales isn’t a performance — it’s structured curiosity. The best sellers ask, listen, document, and repeat.
How to Outfox Your Competitors:
Design a repeatable outreach system: document stages, exit criteria, and reply tags (pain, timing, fit, referral).
Use at least two channels — email + LinkedIn — for every Tier A account.
6. Re-Balance Your Life Before Burnout Does
The Challenge
Founders often treat exhaustion as a badge of honor. But burnout doesn’t build companies — it breaks them.
“You can’t out-hustle burnout. Balance isn’t indulgent; it’s strategic.”
What That Means:
Growth that costs your well-being isn’t growth. Rest isn’t the reward — it’s the resource.
How to Outfox Your Competitors:
Schedule a 30-minute quarterly review for yourself.
List energy givers and drains.
Cut one drain, add one giver.
Your best advantage is the ability to keep going.
Final Takeaways
Building something great isn’t about speed, volume, or hustle—it’s about clarity.
Mattias' episode of Outfoxed reminds us that real growth comes from uncomfortable conversations, early pivots, and data you can trust.
Validate with strangers, not cheerleaders. Communicate until people can finish your sentence.
Build systems that make selling feel natural, not forced. And protect your energy like it’s part of the business plan—because it is.
The founders and marketers who outfox their competitors aren’t the loudest; they’re the ones who listen, adapt, and keep showing up, one email and one honest conversation at a time.
🎧 Listen to Mattias' episode of Outfoxed wherever you find your favorite podcasts:
Want More from Outfoxed?
If you enjoyed Mattias' episode, check out the stories that started it all:
- 🎙️Rand Fishkin on doing more of what you love to grow your business, and avoiding the AI hype
- 🎙️ Spike Johnson on creativity, storytelling, and building something meaningful
- 🎙️ Joel Simkins on the reality of growth, from cold calls to leading an investment firm
Each episode of Outfoxed gives the mic to real builders — founders, creators, and operators — sharing the truth of growth.
👉 Subscribe now so you never miss a conversation that keeps you grounded and inspired: https://outfoxed.hunter.io
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